【英日対訳】ミュージシャン達の言葉what's in their mind


【英日対訳:キース・ジャレット】インタビュー:BBC "Jazz on3" '09(4)

Interview with Keith Jarrett 

(Reprinted from old DTM; originally posted September 2009. Thanks to Peggy Sutton of BBC’s Jazz on 3 for arranging the interview.  Steve Weiss was the engineer and Bradley Farberman handled the transcription.) 

BBCラジオ3(BBCのラジオ局)の番組「Jazz on 3」の2009年のインタビューです(聞き手:イーサン・アイヴァーソン[ピアノ奏者、作曲家、音楽評論家)。 




EI:  On the last two available solo concerts, there’s a remarkable infusion of (I hope this term won’t bother you) atonality. 


いまCDで聴ける最新の2つのソロコンサート(訳注:『Radiance』『The Carnegie Hall Concert』)は大変注目すべき… その、この言い方に気を悪くされなければ良いのですが、無調性を顕著に取り入れていますよね。 


KJ:  Yeah. Doesn’t bother me. 




EI:  Historically, you’re probably the first person that is as comfortable playing in a completely atonal context as well as on just a D Major triad for twenty minutes. I think it’s wonderful that the atonal side is so forthright on these last records. 




KJ:  I would call it “multi-tonal.” I mean, in a very strange way, there’s no such thing as “atonal.” It’s like when you’re listening to a bad speaker system, your ear makes up for what you’re missing. If you know the recording, you know what’s on it. Even if you don’t know the recording, and you live with this little speaker system, you gotta get something from it. At Berklee, I had this lunchbox-sized record player. The record was bigger than the box. But I wasn’t missing anything! 




I started to realize the universe actually requires all sounds, in a way. And so if you want to be anthropomorphic or whatever that is, there is no such thing as atonality. You’re either putting more colors together, or you are putting less. Or you’re choosing. So tonality is a choice. But even in the concerts you haven’t heard, there’s more and more of this. 

それで気づき始めたんです。宇宙は、じつはあらゆる音を必要としていて- つまり「宇宙が必要としている」みたいな擬人化でも何でもいいんですが、人の感覚を超えたところでは、無調性の音楽というものは存在しないということです。色を多く使うか、少なく使うか。あるいは必要なものを選ぶか。つまり調性というのはそういう選択でしかない。自分が聴いたことのない音楽を聴くことになるソロコンサートであっても、こうした事はどんどん増えていくでしょう。 


When I did the Carnegie Hall concert, somebody came up to me who I knew, who I hadn’t seen for a while, and they said, “Oh, I love those little atonal interludes between the things.” And I said, “You know, thank you for saying that!” There’s two things: One is, I wish they could go on forever. No one will ever hear this in concert, because I would be asking so much from the audience. But in my studio, that happens for thirty minutes at a time, and maybe it could go on forever. The other thing is she had said she liked the “interludes,” so she was focusing on the other things as the real content. It made me realize that I had some more work to do. To let those things come out even more. To let them play out. 



EI:  To talk about voice leading again: everything is controlled in those improvisations.  It’s very easy when you’re shoveling around so many thousands of notes to have some of the pitches become a little careless, especially when it’s a less obviously tonal context. But what’s extraordinary is that you’re still voice leading all the little melodies even at a really rapid velocity and in a very free harmonic situation. 




KJ:  Yeah. And I have to say, the releases up to now don’t even touch the Paris and London recordings that should come out in the fall, and which encapsulate this more, even. And then the more recent things continue to do that. 


そうですね。それと言っておかないといけないのは、これまでリリースされたCDは、この秋にリリースされるパリとロンドンの録音(訳注:『Paris / London - Testament』)と比べると足元にも及ばないとさえ言えるでしょう。その演奏はより凝縮されています。そして更に最近の演奏も、これに引き続き取り組んでいるのです。 


For example, at the London concert, I had had this stupid Db Major… somehow or other Db was in my head. And I knew I was going to not play in Db. I’ve said before that I don’t want to have any thoughts in my head, but this one was just not going away. And it wasn’t enough of a musical thought to call it musical. It was just that, somehow or other, I felt that I better just get it out, whatever it was. And so, in the London concerts, there was a unique beginning to a concert. It’s not gradual like the old solo concerts were, where it starts in a harmonically okay place and it sort of builds slowly into melodies and motifs. Now, recently, it’s been more like, “Go!” But this was none of those things, this was something mysterious, it was slow, and it was, again, like cellular construction. You couldn’t expect where the next thing would pop up. And somebody came backstage, a musician, probably a very good one because he had this comment, he said, “During the first piece of the first set,” – the one I’m talking about – he said, “I couldn’t handle it. I mean, I couldn’t handle it. I had to go out and get a glass of water. You were putting so much into this.” And I said, “I’m glad I didn’t get thirsty!” 

ロンドンのコンサートを例に話すと、あの時は馬鹿げたD♭メジャー… とにかくD♭が頭の中に居座ってたんです。なのでD♭は弾かないようにしようと。さっきも言いましたが、何かを頭の中に用意して、それで弾くようなことはしたくないんです。ところがこのD♭は全然頭の中から離れようとしないんですね。音楽的発想とすら言えるものでもないのに。ただどういうわけか、それが何であれ、出したほうがいいんじゃないかという気がしたんです。それでロンドンのコンサートは、他のコンサートと比べて異質な始まり方をしました。(訳注:Part Iの演奏)昔のソロ・コンサートのように、和声的にまあ良いだろうというところから始まって、そこからゆっくりとメロディやらモチーフをつくってゆく、みたいな緩やかなものではないんです。最近はどちらかというと「それいけ!」って感じですが、ロンドンはこのどれにも当てはまらない、何やらミステリアスな感じで、ゆっくりと、そして先ほども言いましたが、細胞分裂のようなことが起きたのです。次にどこにどう細胞が発生するか予想がつきません。そしてこの日は楽屋にあるミュージシャンがやって来て-彼はとても優秀だと思いますね-こんなことを言いました。「1部の最初の演奏だけど、」(いま僕が話していたことです)「参ったよ。耐えられなかった。ハラハラしてホール出て水飲んじゃったよ。しかしよく踏ん張ったな。」それで僕も「良かったよ、のどがカラカラにならなくて!」なんて。 


But I think, let’s call it the color gamut, they use that phrase in photography, is infinite. And it’s certainly not infinite on piano, but it can seem infinite if you know how. And to be perfectly honest, theoretically, a piece of music like that could go on for the rest of my life. It’s so absorbing, I could live in there. And that’s what I was trying to talk about with the getting your voice thing. You have to sort of drop it so you can see how beautiful all the other things are now that you can do on the same keyboard, not worrying anymore about your voice. Forget about it. And it’ll stay there, because I’m sure you were aware that it was me playing, and yet I wasn’t playing the same way. 



Somebody asked Gary, you must’ve heard this or seen this, on some video about touch, and what was it like to play with Bill versus Keith. It was kind of a dangerous question to ask. And Gary was really good, he said something like, “Well, Bill didn’t have a touch, he had a sound. It was always the same sound. Keith modulates the touch depending on what the needs of the music are.” Touch, in jazz, is pretty rare, in the sense that you can choose from a vast array of things. 



EI:  Although, I think the minute you put a ride cymbal on stage, you’ve eliminated sixty percent of what the piano can do. 




KJ:  That’s partly true. Yeah. 




EI:  But I actually think that’s something important to jazz piano in a way. The sound has that thing that fights against a ride cymbal. 




KJ:  Yeah, it isn’t that players don’t have that sound, and it isn’t that they don’t want that sound. It’s just that I think there’s been a very much lower consciousness of that element. You know, in the classical world, some of those people are coming because of my touch. Whereas, probably that’s true with the jazz people, too, but it might not be the first thing they think of. They’re thinking of ideas. Or, pulse. 




EI:  My impression is that most jazz pianists would have trouble playing below a certain dynamic consistently. 




KJ:  Classical players never pound, but they also never actually get soft, soft, soft, soft, to the point of risking that the note won’t play. Benedetti Michelangeli is an exception. 




EI:  He’s so marvelous. 




KJ:  Yeah. He could do that in the middle of a Ravel concerto. “He almost didn’t get that one!” 




EI:  I read somewhere that Miles Davis and Bill Evans were listening to Benedetti Michelangeli’s Ravel concerto in advance of Kind of Blue. 


どこかで読んだ話ですが、マイルス・デイヴィスビル・エヴァンスは『Kind of Blue』収録前に、ベネディッティ・ミケランジェリが弾いたラヴェルの協奏曲を聴いていたそうですよ。 


KJ:  That makes sense. 




EI:  That record coupled with Rachmaninoff’s fourth concerto. 




KJ:  Yeah, that’s the one I’m talking about.